Jamaal Williams

Discussion in 'Detroit Lions Blitz' started by TheDane, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    I never said Abdullah was an elite back. I do see now how you might have thought that because I agreed with Rusty's post. I guess my thought is he has elite talent, but I agree you can't call him an elite RB yet.

    And I have said several times on this board I would have rather taken Foreman than make the trade (the question isn't Foreman vs Roberts - it is Foreman vs Golladay/Reeves-Maybin). And I also would have been fine taking Williams over Roberts. But I get why they didn't.
  2. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    I watch him in games and he does things very few RBs can do.

    What really sets him apart is his acceleration. I don't know if there is a back who can get to his top speed as quickly as he does. HIs other traits like vision, awareness of where his blockers are and where the play is designed go to -- also elite.

    As for stats, I go by yards-per-carry, because I'm not impressed by a RB who has to carry the ball 30 times in order to reach 100 yards. And at 4.3 (career) that puts him in the same territory as DeMarco Murray and David Johnson.

    The fact that he did that behind a far worse offensive line under a Joe Lombardi blocking scheme means he's even better than that number suggests. I factor in quality of blocking.

    But none of this even matters. Just watch the kid play. If you can seriously do that and not see what makes him elite, then I question your ability to deal with reality and function in life.
  3. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    So you're saying you think he has elite talent, which is fine. But Geezer is right - he's not an elite back until he proves it on the field and maintains it. To this point, it's nothing more than potential.

    Jeff George had elite talent. Would you say he was an elite NFL quarterback?
  4. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    I don't view this thing like Golf, where a guy has to earn his green jacket.

    Jeff George was highly successful in an offense where Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper excelled. When I watched him play, I didn't see "elite." I looked at him and Brian Billick and saw two chowderheads who were lucky to have Robert Smith, Jake Reid, Chris Carter and Randy Moss on the same team. They were the original greatest show on turf.

    Speaking of greatest shows on turf, it took me exactly one preseason game in Chicago to conclude that backup QB Kurt Warner, was an elite QB. He just had the "it" factor.

    As for Running Backs, if you want to know who I would say has "elite traits" that would be Dwaine Washington. Abdullah has actually done it over stretches of actual games. And during those stretches, he showed the most important trait a Lions RB needs to have: The ability to walk through a dumpster fire and somehow come out the other end unscathed.

    I've only seen a few in my lifetime who I would consider "game-changer" elite. People debate whether Bo Jackson has the earned credentials to be considered among them, and I'll still take him every time over Marcus Allen. When I watch Abdullah, I see a lot of the same elite traits I saw in Marshall Faulk. He was dealt a real sorry deck being drafted by the Lions. Life gave him lemons and so far he's made lemonade. Elite players do that. Feel free to slap whatever label you want on that.
  5. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    OMG, I just threw up. Rusty remember when you said people in a hole should stop digging. RUSTY GIVE ME YOUR SHOVEL!!! No more keyboard for at least a month.
  6. TheDane Well-Known Member

    There is never any intellectual honesty, why do you bother?
  7. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    I'm not denying the validity of math.

    I'm just saying I think a particular player is really good.

    You're free to disagree.
  8. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    I don't know, he will never change. Hell next year he will be saying that we have needed an RB for several years and make it sound like that has been his position all along. LOL
  9. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    I think it's cute that you girls have found each other.

    Everyone needs at least one friend in the world.
  10. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    No need to take carries away from Abdullah, Riddick will already be taking a lot of the 3rd down snaps and no doubt be in on a lot of special packages. I don't think many would have complained if Williams or Foreman were selected but this obsession with RBs isn't how some successful teams work and the Lions GM came from a regime where RBs are not that highly valued and often the team makes the RB.
  11. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    That is not true. Corey Dillon 2004 - 2006, Kevin Faulk 1999 - 2012 were two very good RBs. Lagarrett Blount was not bad either. When the Patriots won the superbowl they normally had an excellent ground game.
  12. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    Other than Corey Dillon I disagree. Faulk was a system guy and fit in well with what they were doing. Blount hadn't done anything meaningful since his rookie year 6 years before and likely won't do anything again in his career. There was a reason NE didn't want to keep him around. Dillon was really the only time the Patriots had a real talent at RB in the BB era.
  13. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    They've also always been pretty much stocked at Tight End. You'd never see them drafting RB ahead of TE if they were as thin as we we've been.

    And the last time I remember them having 2 featured backs was like 3 years ago when Sevan Ridley and LaGarette Blount shared the load. A third-rounder and a UDFA.
  14. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    How about Lawrence Maroney, Sammy Morris, Shane Vareen, Stevan Ridley. Lawrence Maroney was pretty good but injuries shortened his career. From what I am finding, Bill Belichek was constantly bringing in RBs either through the draft or free agency and tried to maintain at least 2 NFL caliber RBs. He definitely addressed the position at least once every 2 years on average with a high draft pick or good free agent aquisition.
  15. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    Corey Dillon had one good season for the Patriots and Kevin Faulk was essentially a poor mans Theo Riddick, Legarrett Blount is no doubt talented but he went undrafted and bounced around because of attitude and off field issues and the Patriots spent relatively little for him.
  16. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    So what are you saying? The Patriots always had run of the mill RBs. If you are then that is not true. Faulk averages 4.3 yards/carry and 8.9 yards/reception. If Riddick could do that, I would shut my mouth, and just call me happy. In all reality, Riddick is a poor mans Faulk. Riddick is not a good runner 3.5 yards/carry is sub-par NFL, but is an excellent RB receiver with 8.2 yards/reception.
  17. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    Last year he averaged 3.9. Same as Blount.

    Then again, you're the one who said you can't estimate within the nearest 0.1 yard. :D

    You're also a big "sample size matters" guy. And there were only two seasons in his career where he had as many attempts as Riddick had last year. And he averaged 3.5 YPC those years. He's not just a poor man's Riddick. He's a homeless man's Riddick.
  18. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    Eh, none of those guys were anything special. Remember, we're talking about the greatest head coach in NFL history. Belichick is brilliant at getting the most out of mediocre (or worse) players. Why do you think none of those guys did anything anywhere else?
    Huntermsu likes this.
  19. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    Faulk was a situational RB much like Riddick, every season that Faulk had more than 100 carries (meaning he was used outside of his natural role) he averaged 3.6 ypc or less, and yes I would say the Patriots usually have run of the mill RBs but they are very good at finding and utilizing them is a role where they can excel.
  20. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    You have a tough time comparing apples to apples. You are being dishonest. Blount's worst year to Riddick best. You are sad dude.
  21. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Actually most of them got injured except Faulk and Vereen. Faulk retired from the Patriots and Vereen is doing better with the Giants. Ridley has not been the same since the 2014 injury.
  22. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Actually you don't know why he averaged less, you are just speculating. He may have played with small injuries that affected his performance or injuries along the OL. Could have been anything, you don't know, and don't tell me you do. Here is what we do know, he averaged 4.3 yards/carry for his career. To me that is an NFL Caliber RB. You are trying to cherry pick to make a point and that is dishonest.
  23. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    By worst year you mean career highs in carries, yards and TDs?, plus his ypc was lower in 2012.
  24. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    Persuasive as always, care to elaborate?
  25. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    Now you're trying to say that offensive line play can have an impact on Patriot RBs, but you're not giving the same benefit to our backs.


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