Stafford struggles a national story. What are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Detroit Lions Blitz' started by eastcoast blue, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. eastcoast blue Active Member

    After Mondays game it seems to me Stafford and his struggles and viability as a starting Quarterback as well as his ceiling has become a national topic.

    We know what Blog thinks of Stafford so hopefully he doesn't grace this topic with his presence...

    What is the LRZ's opinion of Stafford as a QB, his ceiling and wether he is holding this team back at all.

    I think the recent articles bashing Stafford are a bit unfair, especially when they point out younger Qb's that are "succeeding" and playing better than Stafford. Using Kaepernick, Luck, RGII (last year lol) and Russel Wilson as examples. My problem with that comparision is how much those guys are asked to do in comparison to Stafford. I really like Wilson as a player but he throws something like 20 times a game and is backed up by the BEST defense possibly of all time and one of the best running games in the league... It's a similar story as Kapernick as well. Those two guys aren't asked to do much at all and have the benifet of extremely good units all over the field on both sides of the ball.

    I won't even go into much detail on Luck... I think the guy is a bum and has played like it. He gets so much credit for "turning around" a colts team that was in the playoffs every year. Don't even start with the 4th quarter comeback shit either because those wouldn't be necessary if he didn't play like junk for 3 quarters.

    As far as Stafford goes... I"m not so sure anymore on his long term viability for the Lions. He is only 25 yet has a lot of starting experience now and you would hope some of this would be ironed out in his 5th year in the league. You can tell that management/Coaching KNOWS his limitations and trys to form a team around him built to hide his weaknesses... You've got Megatron, a 6'6" Durham, 6'5" Pettigrew, 6'7" Fauria... Guys who have greater range and will go up and get Stafford occasional overthrows...

    The guy is maddening to watch... You'll see him overthrow a wide open swing pass in the flat, fire a pass 5 foot over Burlesons head for a pick and then the next pass drill a 45 yard dart to Durham in stride between 3 defenders. His bad qualities have definitely been masked by herculean Megatron catches over the years and the few games we've seen him without Mega have been... bad to say the least.

    I think his inconsistancies could doom this team but like it or not we are going to be tied to him for 4-5 more years. We can only hope he develops, makes better decisions and even though he doesn't think it's a problem... work on his mechanics.
  2. TechLion Super Genius

    I just don't know why people are so surprised. The guy was never an accurate passer! With the speed of the NFL today a QB can only have success if they are incredibly accurate. On top of his lack of accuracy he doesn't even have a legitimate touch pass! Lions are married to this dude! Finally people are saying what I've been saying since 2009. What I don't understand is why you people can't see the obvious! I know it's because of fantasy fucking football. It has dumbed down everyone except me of coarse.
  3. jdb34 Pres. Wrist Cutter's Club

    I think it had more to do with the 'potential'. He definitely has the tools to be a great QB (see 2011) and people were hoping (myself included) that after a few years he could consistently develop into one, he is kind of like Eli Manning, has the skills (or he wouldn't be in the NFL), but just can't put it together fully. I have also noticed, he throws the ball too quick on a lot of his INT's even when he still has time to get his mechanics/feet right before throwing. He is scared of getting hit which causes him to throw the ball before he should resulting in shit.
  4. Sanders97 #1 semi-fan.

    I don't think it's over for him. He "could" still "get it"...with the right coaches. However, I don't see why we're tied to him for the next 4 or 5 years, either. I say bring in coaches that can work with him and not just accept what he's willing to give. If that doesn't work out and we don't see significant improvement over a year or two, cut your losses and move on.
  5. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Yeah right Tech. Mayhew has not done a good job of bringing in decent RB and WR to support Stafford and CJ. Lets ignore the lack of talent at the RB, TE and WR during Stafford's tenure as QB. It takes 2 to tango, bonehead. People have been dropping perfect passes on Stafford all the time.

    Mayhew Misses which include (poor talent evaluation or taking huge risks):

    Brandon Pettigrew 20th pick, 2009. Ranks near the top for dropped passes
    Derrick Williams 82nd pick, 2009. Complete bust, out in just 2 years
    Jahvid Best, 30th pick 2010. Drafted with concussion history, played 1.5 seasons and retired due to injury
    Amari Spievey, 66th pick 2010. Never made it as a corner, played 2 years as Starter/backup safety
    Nick Fairly, 13th pick 2011. This guy still has not played to his draft position
    Titus Young, 44th pick 2011. Fucking mental case, played 1.5 seasons before total meltdown
    Mikel Leshoure 57th pick 2011. Injured and has not had original burst
    Ryan Broyles, 54th pick 2012. Drafted injured and continues to get injured

    Because of all the above high pick misses the Lions had to pull guys from the street to man the RB and WR positions.
  6. Sanders97 #1 semi-fan.

    I'm not really in the camp that feels the offensive skill positions need to make life easier for the QB. I think Mayhew has had his fair share of misses and draft day blunders, but I also think he's done a good job finding talent in those areas that it's tough to find talent.

    Yeah, the early round WR and RB draft busts suck and I'll continue to criticize those moves for as long as they keep happening. Especially when they trade draft picks to move up to grab a bust. However, I think it needs to be noted that Joique Bell is a definite gem and Chris Durham and Joseph Fauria are decent receivers. I can't agree with the statement that they've been lacking talent at the TE position, either. Pettigrew is average and can do some great things. It's his draft position and his tendency to be solid one year and then drop everything that comes his way the next. He's done decent this year, so next year should be a dud for him.

    Also, what about guys like Riddick and Ross??? I'd like to see Ross given an opportunity in the slot. Move Burleson outside. He's not ideal as a #2, but he's got great hands, almost always picks up yardage after the catch and he's definitely better than what we've had at that position.

    In the end, Stafford represents everything that has been wrong with this team the last few years. He's shown that he has the talent, capability, and intelligence. He just can't string all three together long enough to even be considered "good".

    I saw someone say something along the lines of "Stafford will never be a Manning or Brady type of QB". I agree with that. I also agree with def that it's likely because he doesn't have that burning desire to be great. However, with coaches who won't just accept what he's freely willing to give, I think he could become a very good QB...and with longevity, he could even be great.

    Or...he could keep doing what he's doing, break a few Lions records, and just go down as the best QB of a really bad bunch. That might be good enough for him. If it is...I hope they figure it out and get him outta here sooner than later. I'd rather have an average QB that pushes himself than a gifted one who won't.
  7. BurnTHalO Active Member

    See I think Seattle gets much more credit than they should. Take away the yards that Wilson has scrambled for (~500 yards), and the Seattle running game has nearly the same yardage as the Lions. And I know the "He's asked to do more" thing comes into play, but in that case, you also need to factor in weapons. Russell Wilson's top WR is Golden Tate. Can you imagine Stafford with a top reciever who is like 5'10? The mistakes are just too great for him. Stafford has also been in the league far longer, so he should be better at reading defenses, understanding situations, and limiting mistakes than these young guys, and he clearly is not. I think you need to factor in the reasons Stafford should be ahead of guys like Wilson as well. Bottom line to me is he is not living up to expectations at all.
  8. Schuxu Well-Known Member

  9. eastcoast blue Active Member

    So you're giving Wilson the credit for their success? Ummm. Point blank because of the success of their run game and quite frankly, one of the best defenses of all time, Wilson doesn't have to do jack shit for the Seahawks to be successful. His WR corps is very good as well... The combo of Zach Miller, Doug Baldwin, Tate and Sidney Rice is damn good.

    Ask Wilson to throw 50 times a game and from behind a score or two and see how well he holds up... His season high attempts is 33... Stafford hasn't had a single game below 35 attempts (except the snow bowl...)

    This reminds me of a few years ago when people here and other places swore Sanchez was a much better qb than Stafford... He was throwing 20 times a game, had the best defense in the league and a dominate running attack.

    I really really like Wilson though, don't get me wront but to suggest he is asked to do as much as Stafford and or has as much pressure on him is asinine.
  10. eastcoast blue Active Member

    Give Stafford a downright dominant defense, legitimate WR's other than calvin and a run game that will make play action actually mean something... and ask Stafford to throw 15 times less per game.

    Do you think he would be more successful/ more efficient?
  11. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    Ugh, play action is not set up by the run game. It's about the line selling that they are run blocking and the QB and RB selling the hand off.

    And the running game can't be used as an excuse anymore. The Lions had a solid running game and Stafford made the same mistakes. He makes them because of lazy mechanics and poor decision making.
  12. eastcoast blue Active Member

    Umm, when you have a team that throws 45-50 times a game... Are you going to fall for the run fake very often?
  13. BurnTHalO Active Member

    I'm saying the amount of credit people are dismissing from him is ridiculous. Is he all the reason for the Seahawks being this good? Of course not. But people make it sound like he does nothing but hand the ball off and make a timely throw or two, and it is completely inaccurate. In 2010, they got lynch and tate, 2011 Baldwin and Rice, and in 2012 they got Wilson. In 2012, their PPG went up by almost 6. The idea he doesn't have to do "jack shit" is completely inaccurate. He has a 105 passer rating, 8.6 YPA, and almost 65% completion %, 3000+ passing yards with another 500 rushing. You don't get those numbers doing "jack shit." And the real humor in it is if you take away the QB scrambles/rushes from both teams, the Lions have more rushing yards, and a much better (0.6 better) YPC. Heck, if you just take away Stafford from the Lions rushes and leave Wilson if you want to say those are designed rushes (which is inaccurate, but I'll go with it), the Lions STILL have a better YPC. So the Seahawks having this rush game way ahead of the Lions is just not accurate.

    I do concede, defense definitely helps. But my problem is the Stafford problems are not from throwing the ball to much. It's not like his arm is tiring and he is wearing down throughout the game. It's also not like defenses know passes are coming and make great plays on balls because they are ready. They are sloppy, dumb throws that a 5 year vet can't be doing. Or they are fine reads and he simply throws a bad ball.

    I can think of 1, maybe a second that thought Sanchez was better, nobody else. And you have to be kidding me if you think the WR corp is damn good. First off, Sidney Rice got hurt in what, week 3 or 4? Second, the guy had 1 season over 750 yards, and 2 seasons over 500 yards in 7 seasons, and you think he's great? And Baldwin is a 50 catch guy, and once again, like Tate, a 5'10 WR. Doesn't give you quite the window that CJ does. If that is a damn good group, you must think Dallas/Denver/SF/Detroit/Chicago/Cinci/Atlanta are like the best of all time.
  14. BurnTHalO Active Member

    It worked great in Indy for Peyton......
  15. Strongbad Testicals... That is all.

    If you look at the 10 passes batted up by WR Stafford has better TD to INT ratio than most QB in the league. If you just tiook half the drops away he has a top 10 compleation rate.

    Stafford is always going to have his up's and downs because of who he is. And most overreaction to teams play the QB get to much credit and to much blame when the team wins and looses.

    Stafford can get better but needs a coach that can help him do it not an undisaplined chud like Schwarts. He is not a Brady or manning and never will be. But he is a top 10 QB in the NFL and it would be very hard to find a better QB to start for the team next season.
  16. Strongbad Testicals... That is all.

    It Does crack me up that Stafford threw one legit INT in the baltimore game. CJ droped a 6 pointer and anouther that was real important. Two players going out for a pass run into each other creating a INT and a WR bats na ball in the air for a INT....... And here we are focused on the guy that put the team in the lead with just over 2 min left on the clock with all the fucked up bad play around him.....
  17. TechLion Super Genius

    CJ dropped two passes but both of them were a little behind him and with the speed Stafford throws those balls are not easy to catch. The good QB's know when to take a little off throws and when to gun them. Also CJ made a crazy circus catch that should not have been caught to make up for one of he drops.

    Remember that inaccurate passers always have more drops than accurate QB's that put the ball on the money more consistently. Staffords lack of touch and accuracy is the problem.
  18. Strongbad Testicals... That is all.

    You sir are straight up out of your mind if you think both dropped passes by CJ where bad passes or there is ANY reasonable excuse for dropping them.

    I can tell you straight up you never played any football if your think you make a good play to make up for a bad one... That is something losers say.
  19. Strongbad Testicals... That is all.

    Next You will be telling me how the two guys going out for a pass running into to each other is Staffords fault... or WR consistantly running the wrong routes or how all the RB fumbles are Staffords fault.. And if stafford was better the Lions would not be DOMINATION the NFL in passes given up over 20 and 40 yards.
  20. TechLion Super Genius

    OH yeah, we were all taught in high school that if you can touch the ball it should be caught. Well that's all fine and dandy but the FACT is that if passes are consistently a little behind, a little high, a little low or a little behind teams will have more drops. It is the law of physics!

    Touch and accuracy is the key to having less dropped balls. If a QB makes it easy to catch the ball a team will have less drops every time. IT IS THE UNIVERSAL LAW AND NOTHING MORE THAN COMMON SENSE. If you can't see the logic in what I am saying then you are an illogical person and I really don't need to talk about this with you any further.
  21. eastcoast blue Active Member

    I was going to say the same thing... I don't think Stafford has been the biggest problems this year, though he is one of them. He has had a ton of interceptions that came from batted and even dropped passes. Stafford had the TampaBay game won too if Cj hadn't fumbled at the 2 right into a safetys hands.
  22. TechLion Super Genius

    I made a logical argument and now you are throwing out illogical things that you know I don't think are Staffords fault. This is typical of illogical people.
  23. Strongbad Testicals... That is all.

    There have been MANY passes this year that I could point to that did not have touch or you could make an excuse why they where dropped... You just cant with the 2 CJ passess in that game period.
  24. eastcoast blue Active Member

    I still lol at the pass that went right through Burlesons hands and hit him in the face.
  25. TechLion Super Genius

    Just saying that I have never seen CJ drop a pass that was on the money. He is running fast and those throws are going fast. Combine the two and a little behind isn't easy to catch. This is where touch comes into play. I am not talking about those two passes as much as I am talking about drops in general. Those two passes by CJ were drops but he did make up for one and I think with a better QB the team would have less dropped balls.

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