Why do people think Abdullah needed to be upgraded?

Discussion in 'Detroit Lions Blitz' started by Rusty Hilger, May 3, 2017.

  1. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Lang and Wagner were Pro Bowlers on their previous teams. The scheme and technique was fucking shit.
  2. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    No doubt Sir, you are correct. However, I believe that the Lions under Patricia will change to a 3-4 defense. Meaning our pass rush would come more from LBs. It would be prudent to start this change during this draft. It is filled with 3-4 pass rushing LBs and also run stuffers that can play the 5-tech.
    Josey Jewell, (Iowa) would be a great Jack LB and Ja'Von Ronald Jones (Arkansas St.) as the Sam LB.

    P.S. Another sign I think they are changing to 3-4. The Lions let Kris Kocureck go to the Dolphins. Kocureck has no practical experience with 3-4 alignments.
  3. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    They were also both hurt, like the rest of the OL. Lang’s health should be a concern though.
  4. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    That was my one concern with the Lang signing. He was damaged goods even when we signed him.
  5. millenbacker !! JUST BREW IT !!

    Lang made the pro bowl, so he couldn't have been too bad. I think it was purely schematic that made the OL suck so bad. Hoping Cooter is not kept.
  6. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    Ron Prince was basically forced on Cooter.

    I'd like to see how things go if Cooter gets to pick an offensive line coach.
  7. TheDane Well-Known Member

    Let's see, we don't have any players on the OL. then we use a first round pick on a LT that may very well be a pro bowler. Then we add 2 guys who have been pro bowlers. And now we are replacing the OL coach. LOL, at what point do we decide that it's the RB's? Well, I think we all know the answer to that...
  8. Blaming Barry Well-Known Member

    Dane, serious question - and I'm not being combative or anything, believe it or not I value your opinion on this stuff so I'm curious what your thoughts are. With the supposed upgraded O-line, why do you think Abdullah was so unproductive and seemed to regress this year? Do you think he wasn't fully recovered from the foot injury? Or is he just not as good as we thought he was? I thought he looked explosive at times this season, and sluggish at other times.
  9. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    I think it always seemed like they were trying to “break” Abdullah loose. Was always some type of outside zone, delay, or stretch run that was set up to get him to second level where he’s good at making guys miss. That’s fine, but relies a lot on blocks being set up perfectly and cohesion with OL, something they obviously lacked with injuries. Abdullah isn’t a powerful back by any stretch, but he does have the ability to run north/south and pick up 3-4 yards on a simple dive.

    If Prince was designing th run game, which by all accounts seems like the case, I’d say that was the biggest issue with Abdullah. They were like a power hitter always trying to hit one out. Great when it connects, but doesn’t help when you bat .220.
  10. TheDane Well-Known Member

    AA is slow, 4.60, but his 10 yard # was great at 1.48. He isn't fast enough to bust outside and isn't strong enough to run inside esp getting the ball out of the shotgun. I think he could be more productive in another scheme with a QB who plays under center so he gets up to speed quicker. Theo runs a 4.66 and is almost exactly the same size. He isn't getting outside either and he isn't going to be the north/south guy very often as well. So your running game is 2 guys who give you exactly the same thing. Neither back is a lead back so there is no real rotation when you get Thing 1 and Thing 2 all day long. Theo gives you the threat in the passing game and the last 2 years, fuck you Quinn, they have thrown 53x to him both seasons down 33% from his 80 because he was running it instead of being the 3rd down guy.

    In the end you have D's that don't need to do much to "plan" with re to our running game. They don't have to make us one dimensional, we already did it for them. Until we get a rotation of NFL RB's, and I really think we just need one more and it doesn't have to be a high pick, expect more of the same. The Bears had the top rookie RB in the league in 2016 and still went out and got another RB. GB took 3 in last years draft. Vikes took Cook in the 2nd and had a good running game w/o him. We're in the bottom 3 for 3 years running and don't change a fucking thing. This is why I bumped this thread, people thought we were somehow good to go and it was bullshit last year, it was bullshit the year before, it was bullshit the year before that and it will be next year if they don't do something. My hope is that they don't knee jerk their way into taking one in the first round because we don't have to reach.
  11. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    Abdullah isn't used enough as a reciever out of the backfield either. 35 targets is way too low given how dangerous he is in space. They seemed to use it more late in the season when his usage went down.
  12. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    If you have a 1.48 10 yd, you should have no issue getting to the edge. That’s elite burst. Jahvid Best has same 10 yd. Abdullah is an elite athlete. His explosion and agility numbers are off the chart, think he was #1 SPARQ athlete that year. He lacks the second gear Best had, but a 1.48 means you’re getting 0-60 as fast as anyone.

    Now of course this is all in the vacuum of the combine and guys can run different on the field. Also doesn’t take into play if the injury has had any lingering effects on Abdullah.

    I agree with Dane’s larger point, though. The RB group as a unit is incomplete and no excuse with a loaded draft not to add help.
  13. TheDane Well-Known Member

    You shouldn't have a problem getting to the edge but AA does. watch his tape. He trots out there looking for an opening instead of committing from the get go. Holes aren't there all day, they are there for a split second. He really doesn't use his speed to his advantage IMO.
  14. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    Very possible. Like I said also possible that athleticism took a hit from injury.

    Will say, OL was not good on those designed runs though. To my point of they always seemed to be trying to hit Homeric with Abdullah.
  15. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    I think last years injury affected Abdullah's burst. He was a lot quicker to the hole prior to the injury. I hope he can strengthen his leg and foot back to what it was. He can help the Lions if he is 100 percent.
  16. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    Our offensive line couldn't even block enough for the QB to fall forward for a yard.

    We were worst in the league in short yardage situation, but that's an understatement. We were one of the worst of all-time in short yardage.

    That's more than just a subtle red flag or an indicator. My guess is AA got demoralized after running in to brick walls all the time. As any back would. A lot of this stuff is mental. Just like with the QB position. Scripting a lot of short throws early on helps him get in rhythm. Success breeds success.
  17. millenbacker !! JUST BREW IT !!

    AA is garbage. Scrap all the RBs and start over.
  18. lionsmack Right down the middle

    Man, all I know is I recall several times seeing Abdullah fail on outside runs because he couldn't beat a LB or DE to the edge one on one. Play was blocked except for that one guy Abdullah had to outrun and he'd end up getting taken down or chased out of bounds for a gain of 1.

    We all know he can't break a tackle to save his life, that's not what he does, OK fine. He can still make a guy miss now and then but then he doesn't have the speed to take it from there. He might make a guy miss and then gain another 2-3 yards before getting dropped in his tracks.

    When he gets out in space, then he's not too bad, especially in short passing. He could be an effective passing game back. But not as good of one as Riddick is.
  19. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    If a DE was free and he couldn't beat him, than the edge wasn't set and the play wasn't blocked properly. If you're trying to run outside the tackles, a key factor is making sure the guy at the end of the DL isn't free.
  20. lionsmack Right down the middle

    When you draw the play up, sure, that's the way it is. Obviously when you run the play on the field, shit happens.

    Every good back out there has plenty of times where they have to evade one guy - even when the play design is for them to have none - and manage to get it done. So many times, that's where first downs and even bigger plays come from.

    If you have a RB that gets in the position of having 20+ yards to outrun a 280 pound guy to the sideline, and can't do it, you got a problem. Especially when that guy is supposed to be a speed and quickness type of back.
  21. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    If you’re not blocking the DE on a run outside the tackle you’re gonna have to work some fucking magic to gain significant yards. Because the time spent now trying to break it further outside, you have LB’s and DB’s in pursuit. The key to an outside run is sealing the DE inside, if you don’t do that you have very little chance of success. Sorry, that’s not on the back.
  22. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    I disagree. A NFL RB better be able to out run a DE, so the TE or OT just needs to chuck him to prevent immediate pursuit. The problem we have with all of our RBs, they can't out run the DE or the LBs.
  23. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    It’s not about out running a DE. It’s about if the DE isn’t blocked properly then the run gets pushed further outside. The further outside the RB is pushed, the more opportunity for pursuit by LB’s and DB’s. They design these plays for a reason. If it was just about speed to the edge, you just get the fastest RB available and run him outside all the time. This isn’t Tecmo Bowl with Bo Jackson.
  24. Huntermsu Mr. Negativity

    Wait so an outside run isn't just a foot race between the DE and the RB?

    Sarcasm aside an outside run has so many moving parts from the outside blockers to even the RB who isn't simply trying to run to the sideline as fast as possible he should be looking for the opportunity to cut up field or provide a little hesitation at the right time to make a defender make a mistake or help his blockers, if it were so simple Tatum Bell wouldn't be known for stealing luggage and running fast in gym shorts...
  25. Felix True Fan

    Wait, a RB lines up, what, 7 yds deep and he sucks if he cant get yds past an unblocked DE that only goes laterally? Totally makes sense...what does angles, physics and math have to do with it? Sheesh...

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