Why do people think Abdullah needed to be upgraded?

Discussion in 'Detroit Lions Blitz' started by Rusty Hilger, May 3, 2017.

  1. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Hhhmmm. We go out and sign two free agent OL that play at or near pro bowl level for their previous teams. We sign one of the best blocking TE (Darren Fells) in the league. So you guys say the problem of not being able to run outside the tackle is blocking. I don't know about you guys but 1 plus 1 = 2. The RBs are too fucking slow for runs outside.
  2. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Who said the DE was unblocked?
  3. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    You also had Greg Robinson blocking for half the year and I know you like PFF’s grades(when they work for you), they had a Ebron as a better blocker than Fells this year. And for the 100th time, Lang and Wagner were not big upgrades over the guys they replaced.

    That said, nextgen stats actually show Abdullah was more successful outside than inside.
  4. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    The original post.
  5. Without a doubt, we need to draft a RB, we have not had a 100 yd rusher since Thanksgiving 2013; with Reggie Bush being the last 1,000 YD rusher the same year. Prior to that Kevin Jones was the last RB to top 1,000 YDS in 2004.

    Yes, the OL had 11 different starting combinations, but the Lions inability to run the football has been systemic since #20 retired.
  6. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    It did not.
  7. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    No need for the disparaging remark I have placed in bold. I have always known Ebron could block. He just did not want to until his contract year. So what does that tell you. It is the reason I want his ass gone. The fucker is lazy and could give a shit about football.

    And for the 100th time, Lang and Wagner were still upgrades. Fells was an upgrade. Next, let me use some PFF grades because they work for me. Glasgow was an upgrade from his Rookie year. He went from what 42, 2016 PFF grade to 73, 2017 PFF grade. The only one that went back to his shitty self was your boy Swanson, went from PFF 83 to PFF 45 . So that is 4 out of 6 upgrades for the OL. You go ahead and keep blaming the OL. I will keep bitching about the real problem, the RBs.

    That is not saying much. I would rather see the comparison of Abdullah's 2016 numbers (prior to his foot injury) against his 2017 numbers. I think that comparison would be really telling for RB replacement.
  8. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    “he couldn't beat a LB or DE to the edge one on one. Play was blocked except for that one guy“
  9. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    Sorry, I thought you were talking about my post.
  10. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    It's good you've always known, amazing skill you have to just know.

    It wasn't his contract year, his option was picked up before the season, this year is his contract year. But it's good that you are mad at a player for developing his game and improving. Makes a ton of sense.

    When did Swanson become my boy? I thought Swanson sucked until last season and thought he sucked this season. Glasgow did improve. Unfortunately he had to bounce back and forth between 2 positions because of injuries. You also had Lang missing time, and Wagner. And Decker was not very good in his return this season.

    So sure on PFF's grading chart sure it looks pretty. Problem is, those guys never played together consistently. Which is why Football Outsiders listed Lions as the worst unit in the league in the run game and Stafford's sack percentage went up 2%.

    Yes, Lions do need to add help to the backfield, but in no way should you feel completely comfortable with the OL.

    How is that not saying much? The argument was he couldn't get outside. Not that he was great there, but he had more success there than i would have thought.
  11. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    First off, I would never, never, never select a TE in the top ten. Second, he pisses me off, it took him 3.5 years to become an average TE. You can see his talent on some plays, but his effort especially in previous years has been very poor. BTW the 5th year option is not set in stone yet, he needs to continue getting better or else he is gone. If I had the decision, he would be gone. I would never have picked up his option, but with only a few draft picks and virtually no options in FA. He is lucky and will probably have to stay. I would laugh my ass off, if an UDFA came in and took his spot though. It would serve him right for the effort he has given the Lions over the years.

    Oh we had an argument about Swanson and Glasgow at center last year. I remember you saying that you rather have Swanson than Glasgow. Ever since that interchange, Swanson is your boy in my book.

    Well said Badnews, no argument here.

    But I do feel comfortable with the OL talent level. Give them a better blocking scheme that keeps them healthy. Prince's scheme gave the OL bad angle on blocking assignments. That alone will cause injuries due to over extension.
    The RBs however is a different story. When an UDFA at the end of the year was getting more touches/game than a healthy Abdullah. It screams for a RB upgrade. Green was also getting nearly 3.9/carry behind the same line where Abdullah and Riddick could not. I think I made my point.

    Abdullah averaged 4.3 yds/carry when combining 2015 and 2016 stats prior to the foot injury. He only averaged 3.3 yds/carry in 2017. He is not the same Abdullah. My hope is he gets healthy I really like him.
  12. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    Well the GM said he'd be back. So...

    Well Swanson was better than Glasgow last year, you even said it a couple posts ago. So...

    While there is definitely some truth to this. Though the injury part seems like a big stretch, wasn't much of an issue in '16 with same scheme. Not sure you can feel comfortable. Hole at LG/C depending where Glasgow goes(my guess is C), Decker and Glasgow have both shown lots of promise, but had some struggles, too. So there is still some questions, while not huge, they're still young players. It's a big year for them. Lang has some serious questions. He's a very good player when he's on the field, but he's constantly on the injury report and you have to wonder if his body is starting to break down. I think a lot of us felt real good about OL last offseason, too. Then one injury and questions started, a couple more and wheels were completely off.

    I've wanted a RB added to the group. Remember I was the Kareem Hunt guy. That said, it's hard to make complete judgements about these guys running behind a shitty patchwork line. I think there's enough track record with Riddick to know what he is. Abdullah I still think you have some questions. As for Green getting more carries, coaches can be dumb. Sorry, Green was not any better. He loses almost a full yard per carry when you take out his 1 big run against Baltimore. Even in that game, you take out that run and he gave you 10 carries for 18 yards. The next game he gave you 5 for 15.

    It's possible the injury hampered him some this year, but in terms of talking about him running outside this year, '15 and '16 really don't matter. Which is why I didn't understand you saying "that's not saying much".
  13. Liongeezer Ornery Old Fart

    You are right I will have to live with it and hope for his best. I will stop whining.

    True, no argument. So you agree that he is your boy then.

    A lot of very good points, sir
    I know the injury stuff is pure speculation on my part, but I believe scheme is the only thing you can blame. I mean the only guy on the OL that didn't lose a game to injury was Glasgow. We had backups to the backups injured this year. That is not just coincidence. Somehow these guys had to be placed in awkward position for injury to occur at such a rate to the guard and tackle positions.
    If I am Quin I am talking to these players to find out how these injuries occurred. Based on the findings I would take the appropriate action to remedy the problem, which he did. Prince was out of a job. I would also like to speculate that part of the penetration allowed by the OL may have been poor schematic blocking assignments. Like I said we know we have talent on this OL that have performed very well elsewhere. If the scheme is good they should perform well for us.

    Oh I remember and as we know now, Hunt would have been a very good draft pick. That was a good call.

    I like what said about Riddick and Abdullah and agree.
    However, I don't think it is fair to disqualify any of Green's carry because it looks like an outlier at this time. Then without the carry you create a fictional body of work for Green's season that is not factual. I mean his average carry at this time 3.9 yds/carry. Statistically we need more carries to identify true trends. A little over 40 carries is not enough.

    He is not averaging over 4 yards per carry when he did before. That is the point. 3.3 yards/carry is not saying much.
  14. Vic Turner Just Sayin

    After reading this debate did a little poking around on NFL.com

    Lions OL Rankings:

    #32 Rushing Yards per game
    #32 Total Rushing Yards
    #31 in short yardage conversions under 2 yards
    #31 in rushing attempts
    #7 in most sacks allowed
    #13 in QB hits

    One could argue both areas need to be improved. Lets face it, Lang was a replacement for Warford. The never had a good RT to begin with. Swanson has been inconsistent. The injury to Decker....yeah there has been a lot of issues with the group.

    I think overall there is some talent at RB, but they lack that go to guy to hand the rock off to. Abdullah isn't a guy you can feed it to a lot, Riddick....he is a great player for the offense can do many things. But with these numbers its hard to evaluate the backs when the run blocking is this poor. Even the pass protection isn't good...they gave up a ton of sacks and top 40% in QB pressures.
  15. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    If the Bears can get all that production out of Tarik Cohen, there's no reason why an Abdullah/Riddick combo can't be successful. They're all in that same mold. Small, quick accelerators, great at planting and cutting, spinning people around, dangerous in open space.

    Being in Chicago, I've watched the way the Bears use Cohen and how the Lions used their RBs. The bears were just a lot more creative in how they utilized him. They'd just line him up all over the damn place and throw everything but the kitchen sink from the playbook in order to find the best ways to get him the ball in space.

    With Fox getting the boot, it would have been nice to try and get Dave Magazu, their offensive line coach. He's done a good job with their running game.
  16. badnews3123 Well-Known Member

    Wasn’t Washburn their OL coach last year?
  17. Rusty Hilger VP, Wrist Cutter's Club

    Goddamn. You're right. Scratch that.

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